Posted September 17, 2020

Erik and Tim Talked About

• Design and culture centric spaces

• Photon Factory’s journey

• How Erik narrowed his focus to creating beautiful brand spaces

• Why Erik chose to run an agency

• The value of working for and with a small company

• A marketing agency’s biggest blind spot: External Marketing

• The process of pitching to a client

• Win Without Pitching by Blair Enns

• Social responsibilities of an agency owner

• Inclusivity in the work place

• Dream offices and work-cations

Podcast Transcript

Tim Yeadon:

And you roughly look like your image also, this is pretty good. I'll send you a screen cap.

Erik Molano:

Perfect. I'm glad I look like me.

Tim:

How are you doing? How's your stress level?

Erik:

Yeah, during this time I guess the stress level has been somewhat manageable, but mostly work has been busy. So that's where most of the stress is coming from, which I like to call good stress. There's like the stress of not knowing where the next project is coming from and then there's the stress of having too much work, and I realized that's a better stress to have, or I prefer that stress.

Tim:

Tell me about your agency in the year that you founded it and why you decided to start an agency versus being a freelancer or going and getting a job,

Erik:

So I'm the co-founder and creative director of Photon Factory, which we like to call 'a creative studio for brave brands'. So we love doing branding motion and experiential which essentially is like looking at brands in both 2-D and 3-D. So how do you express the brand in our physical space, but also online and in print? And one thing that's super cool about our studio is that we call ourselves a hybrid organization. So it's half design studio, half cultural space. So with our design work, we use that to post art events, live music art shows, poetry, readings, community dinners. So our space is multipurpose in that way.

Tim:

Where did you come up with that idea?

Erik:

I think a lot of how Photon Factory started was around what I felt was lacking in sort of general work culture or office culture. Originally I was working at Microsoft after going to art school and I felt like everything that I was sort of taught in terms of preparing for a career, was to work really hard in school, interview at the best or top companies, and land a solid nine to five job with good benefits. And then your life is set like pretty much everything else should take care of itself. But being at Microsoft taught me a lot about how sort of repetitious and monotonous a nine to five structure can be, and being in college where there's so much freedom, there's so much creativity, you sort of set your schedule to a certain degree. Your social life and your creative work life are all blended together in college. And then once I got into an opposite environment, it just felt very mechanical. Wake up at the same time, drive to the same desk, you know, work as hard as you can, and then leave somewhere around 4:30 to 5:00 and catch the bus back and then do it again. I just felt like there has to be more to life than this and if this is what I'm going to do for the next 40 years of my life, I know that this isn't going to make me happy. So I wanted to explore what a workspace could be. Photon Factory is really my exploration of that.

Tim:

Where else did you work when you got out of school?

Erik:

I went to school at Art Center in Pasadena, where I studied graphic design, worked at Microsoft right after school for a couple of years, and then worked at Digital Kitchen right after that. That's where I really started to learn more about experiential marketing, thinking about immersive environments and how brands express themselves in physical spaces or at trade shows or comic con or, you know, sort of guerrilla-style marketing like on the street. Digital Kitchen was such a cool sort of incubator for ideas like that, and Digital Kitchen got me to see what a smaller team looked like. So I think there are about 40 or 50 people in our office in Seattle, whereas at Microsoft our team was around 90 people, and then overall the company at the time had around 100,000 to 120,000 employees. So just the scale of things really shrunk down and I could really see how an agency was run. I could see the accounting person, I could see the project manager, I could see the decision-makers. That taught me a lot about how to run an agency.

Tim:

So it was the culture of being at Digital Kitchen and the variety of things you got to work on. Do you remember your employee number at Microsoft?

Erik:

No, I don't remember my employee number.

Tim:

I was at Oracle and I was 150034, which is every creative's dream. To have a serial number that high.

Erik:

Yeah, definitely. It feels really good to have a number associated with your role.

Tim:

Absolutely. So was starting an agency or going out on your own, something that you did on purpose, you just made a decision I'm going to do this, or did you fall into this or did you get laid off from somewhere and you needed to make a choice or like, was there a choice involved or did you not choose this?

Erik:

Yeah, that's an awesome question. Microsoft was a layoff and because of that, I needed to rethink my whole reason for being in Seattle. Cause that's why I moved from Los Angeles. And then at Digital Kitchen was where I learned how exciting an agency can be. But also that I wanted more than that in terms of what I wanted my life to look like. So I started to plan sort of a transition to starting my own studio. And that's something that I've pretty much always wanted to do since I was like 15. I remember having this conversation with my dad that one day I would love to have my own design studio. So that was clear for a while, but I just didn't know exactly how to get there. It was very intentional, but I didn't know exactly when to do it. Also is completely frightening to ever imagine leaving a stable job with benefits and saying all of my income now needs to be figured out by me and my partners.

Tim:

How many years has it been since you started Photon Factory?

Erik:

We started in 2015,

Tim:

2015. Looking back now, what were your major blind spots, and did you know that they were blind spots and what were your weaknesses that either you needed to find somebody to backfill or that you needed to learn yourself?

Erik:

Marketing was probably our biggest blind spot and it's so strange being in a marketing world, but also not doing enough marketing for ourselves. We'll help other people build their brand, but our website tends to be the last project that gets updated, which is sort of a project in itself. Also realizing what is our sort of SEO strategies so people can find us easily. Are we writing blog posts or doing interviews or speaking at conferences? And a lot of that we hadn't done. So we were really just going off of our own face to face networking connections, past coworkers, past friends who referred us and that kept us going for quite a while. I wish we were more intentional about marketing in the beginning.

Tim:

Have you budgeted money at this point for marketing?

Erik:

Right now we're actually working on a pretty cool deal with a marketing strategist where we're working for trade. So we're providing branding services brand strategy and some website, visual design in exchange for SEO analytics and just general marketing, digital marketing strategy. I feel like that's a fun way that we can support each other.

Tim:

I find that a lot of us are great at marketing other people, great at elevating or diagnosing other people's problems, and coming up with solutions, but we don't always take the time to look at ourselves and say, "how are we going to walk this?" And I think that goes back to deciding what your agency's focus is. Can you describe to me from day one when you started to how you landed at what your focus is now? Was it organic or was there a process to get there?

Erik:

Yeah, I think it was more organic. It really started based on where our expertise laid. So originally, it was branding motion and video which originally was our skills. And then we refined it down to branding and motion because one of our partners is no longer in the business who focused on video. So there are those structural changes too where the skillsets aren't in-house anymore. Then the experiential aspect was something that I personally was really interested in. I think with the rise of like Instagram and having really photogenic spaces, like retail spaces places that have these beautiful photo moments or murals or cool neon artwork behind you, where you're encouraged to take a photo and share on social. There was this growing need to create these beautiful branded spaces beyond just a sign over the door.

Tim:

That's interesting. So say going into a lobby and there's a brand wall or just the overall experience of what's the lighting like? Or what's the music like, or what's, what's the tone and the mood of this place.

Erik:

Yeah. Starbucks is a great example of a really holistic experience. I wouldn't say it's the most visionary or creative, but they do think about what is the playlist. How do people feel in this space what kind of furniture do we choose to make sure people are comfortable, but we also feel, or look like a modern or contemporary design-centric space. Even the temperature of the environment, the signage that they hire local sign painters. So you get that sense of like community versus just mass-producing signage or having a community wall where you can see local yoga instructors or local businesses share what they're doing. All of those things add up to that experience or that flow of a customer from the moment they walk into the moment they leave.

Tim:

Is there a size of company you're looking for? From startup through fortune 500?

Erik:

Yeah. Somewhere between, like the mid-sized business, I guess it helps to put it into employee count. Companies between like 50 and 500 employees feels like a sort of comfortable space where there is a marketing budget. There is a little bit more of a detachment from the source of money. What I mean by that is when you're a small entrepreneur or a mom and pop sort of shop the attachment that you have to your money is really personal. And there also is that emotion or that stress that comes with spending that money, I think shows up in the design process where people can be a little bit more controlling or more micromanaging versus somebody who is a director of marketing or director of communications who's simply managing a budget that they've been allotted. So I think there's a little bit more detachment in the sense that it's not their baby or it's not money coming from their own pocket that maybe could affect their family or could affect their future. So in that sense, that helps make the process a little bit more objective and focusing on the project. Whereas there isn't so much personally at stake. I've noticed that difference.

Tim:

So that comes from experience.

Erik:

Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Tim:

This is your loaded question of the day. So what are you working on right now?

Erik:

We're coming up with a lot of creative content and motion design for Washington Federal Bank. They're building a new headquarters in downtown, and the architecture is being redone, the interior sort of experience is being redone. And they have these huge, beautiful displays, some as tall as like 12 feet digital displays that they don't have any content for. They knew they wanted digital, they knew they wanted something that felt immersive but they're like "now what do we put on it?" Our company was called in to figure out what goes on those screens. So some of the content strategy, but then how does it align with their new branding? Cause they just recently did a rebrand last year. So we're really looking at their brand guidelines, looking at what's important to their customers, and then using splashy, beautiful, colorful motion graphics to add to that banking environment. So motion content.

Tim:

When you first engage with a company like this, how much thinking do you do before they pay you?

Erik:

This pitching process probably took a few months just to get them confident in what we could do. But it was a really good investment of time because the project has been a year-long engagement and hopefully we can continue that relationship as well.

Tim:

In those few months of pitching, did you have to come up with mood boards or examples, or was it more of a question of they just needed to get used to you as a person?

Erik:

I think it was a mix of both, but a large part of it was the strategy. So we partner with a digital agency called New Reach who focuses on digital displays, the installation, partnering with architects. And from the client's perspective, they thought, well, we already have an agency that does our video work for TV spots and online video content. And we already have a branding agency that just did our rebranding, which was Siegel and Gale, and we already have a web partner who does our website. So why do we need another agency working with us? Don't we already have what we need? So a big part of that was sharing what our role was in getting all of those different pieces together and acting as a hub for all that content. We have all these different partners, but all of this content is in different places. We can work as that hub to gather video content from your phone partner and put it up on these displays. We can work with what's on your website or the latest content from there and put it on these displays. We can take your branding guidelines that you just created and add motion to them, which you haven't seen before, and put them on these displays. So whatever you're creating out there, we'll bring it together, and we'll introduce it into your built environment, your actual bank location. So it was telling that story, how do we fit in.

Tim:

You know, there's a huge acquisition cost to land a client and then you do the gig and then it's over. And what you want is budgeting things on a quarterly basis with a long roadmap. Maybe for you, it's ongoing maintenance that you would sell or seasonal updates to an environment.

Erik:

Yeah, I'm part of this group, we do monthly meetings, it's different creative agency founders that just get together for coffee and we call it Creative Leader Support Group. It's not only a place to just share our own experiences and business insights, but also just the stress of being an agency founder and actually being there to support each other. I was asking this exact question of, 'how do we switch to more retainer work and spend less time pitching?' And one of the books that were recommended was 'Win Without Pitching' by Blair Enns. And this idea of simply putting together three different options of pricing packages allows the client to really choose the scope themselves and also gives them options that fit for them rather than this huge, you know elaborate proposal that you put together and put so much love into, and all they do is skip to the last page that has the budget on it, and look at the number, which happens quite often. (when the client is) not super excited about what you put together, but really, shocked or taken aback by the number you put together, that you really feel you're worth. All of that effort in designing this beautiful pitch might not even be the thing that helps you win or lose a project. So that's something that we're trying to figure out too, the sort of win without pitching process.

Tim:

I read that book, by chance, in the past couple of weeks.

Erik:

Yeah. What did you take away?

Tim:

Not giving away your thinking before you get paid. It talked about three steps. One was focusing on and finding your niche and then building expertise. So people see that you are different than everybody else, and you are an expert in this, and therefore the pitch isn't needed as much because they have a sense of what they would get from you. The third choice or the third part was pricing. And I asked around because I was thinking about this too, and price security is the risk on me, or is there a risk on you the client, appears to be the thing that's most interesting right now. During a recession, a marketer would like to know per month roughly what this is going to cost. So there are no surprises and at least they can budget it. I'm curious if you've ever considered this performance-based. You have a goal that you need to hit, and there are some things we can control in hitting that goal. If you hit that goal, we will get paid and we'll get paid a higher amount, but we won't get paid if you don't hit the goal.

Erik:

Yeah. Really measuring the success of the project.

Tim:

I'm thinking quite a bit about this because for three and a half years, the economy was flying and I could not get out of the way of work. Now I'm finding that I'm still getting a lot of leads, but the types of conversations have changed.

Erik:

Yeah. And I love calling it the roller coaster of running a business. Like how do you get the rollercoaster to flatten out and be more consistent and more predictable rather than really high highs where it's so busy and so packed and then really low lows where no one's calling. And like you mentioned that is the Holy grail, trying to figure out that process and knowing how to create the right engagements. Like this idea of saying we only do 6-month or we do 12-month engagements, and here's what those six months look like. And those are your options and you, you get this consistent set of our support. We don't do just project-based.

Tim:

That's interesting. Or there's a minimum amount that we're looking for that if all goes well, that you'd spend over the course of the year, we're looking for a $50,000 engagement over 12 months.

Erik:

Yeah. It's kind of making it time-based rather than project or lump sum based, which then allows us as agency owners to have a 6-month vision to look out to, or a 12-month. Which would be really nice to have more of that predictability.

Tim:

So shifting gears a little bit, as an agency owner, what are the responsibilities with Black Lives Matters protests, the recession, the many economic discrepancies. I mean, there's a lot to talk about and there's a lot going on that is outside the scope of your normal day to day work, but then you think about it and you're like, no, it's really not. It really is the fabric of what we do with our entire day, and we should think about this. Who we work with, who we hire. Who we hire is an interesting question as far as how do we meet the people who we're interviewing and what are our preconceived notions ahead of time when we're thinking about a position and background. I'm curious for yourself, what is your responsibility as an agency owner?

Erik:

Yeah. It's such a big question because it's all about the perspective that we have on what is our role in society. Our whole society is built around business and around making money, selling products, or operating services. So as we were saying, like who gets access to jobs? What does the makeup, or cultural or ethnic background of your team look like? If there isn't enough diversity, why is that? What biases might you be carrying as an agency owner that encourages you to hire one person over another? Yeah, and just looking at the history of our country all the way to today. Who wasn't allowed to get hired for certain jobs? Who wasn't allowed in the men's club? As white men or white passing men, we've had generations to build wealth and generations to build opportunity. So how do we just very consciously shift some of that power, shift some of those resources to communities who haven't. And that happens in the workplace, who are you hiring and what a lot of people have mentioned also is just including somebody in your office, like, we let someone of color into our space. That's not enough. How do you create a sense of belonging for that person? How do they have a sense of a power or a seat at the table to make decisions they're not just working for you, but they can help guide, you know, the direction of the business or they can have executive level roles as well, not just junior roles.

Tim:

As an agency owner, what can you tell me about the most difficult moment you've run into over the last five years?

Erik:

I mean, I think about seeing the bank account trickled down to a scary place and wondering what's going to happen next and realizing wow, whatever I'm doing isn't working. Yeah. I think getting to that place is one of the scariest moments where it's like, wow, this ship is about to sink. And also the actions that come after that this idea that now you need to desperately reach out to people, you know, sort of check back in to pass clients past colleagues and just do whatever you can to drum up some more work. That always feels so inauthentic. I think people can sort of smell that desperation or that eagerness. I think we all have to do that in sales to some varying degree. But that was something that made me want to take marketing more seriously. I want to plant seeds in a gentle way in an exciting and intriguing kind of way where like, Hey, we're doing exciting things it would be great to work together, check out what we're doing versus, Hey, is there anything you need in the next few weeks or the next month? It would be great to work together again. And people are like, well, what's the rush like what's going on? So it's like that helped really think about a longer-term plan. And even when things are really good, I still needed to be planting those seeds for future projects. So that way we can continue this chain of ongoing work.

Tim:

I have long lists of people who I need to check in with. And I'm always just checking in with people, just curious how it's going, what are you working on? What's going on? Do you know? And hey, it's interesting. I like these people and the people I don't like aren't on all my lists and I don't call him back. I think the best term I heard for it is digging the well before you're thirsty.

Erik:

Yeah. That's a great way to put it.

Tim:

I'm curious for Photon Factory, what's the logical next step for your agency, but deep down in your heart, what's the big goal that you're chasing?

Erik:

I really have a 10-year vision for our team and even just future team members that I haven't met yet is to have a multifaceted space that we own. Because right now we're paying rent or leasing a space for our office, which is common, but I would eventually like to have a true creative center where we own the building. And there are parking spaces off to one side, which we could use for maybe outdoor events or talks or music performances. And it's by the water where we have a slide from the second floor going down directly into the water if you ever needed to leave a meeting and cool off after a long, hard conversation. A general flex space where we could have a classroom or a meeting space, so people could rent it out and we could have members of the community be part of the space or a dance studio that is also part of our design studio. So there are places for your body to move. There are places to sit down and do computer work. But that's the vision that I imagine, is truly creating a space that we've designed for ourselves as a great work environment, but also for other members of the community to come into our work environment and hopefully help inspire what we do in a place that really feels multifaceted. Everything that we're doing now is pretty much pointing towards that. Eventual ownership of property or creation of space that's truly our own.

Tim:

It is interesting. You're one of the few fellows I know that live above the shop.

Erik:

Yeah. A work-live space is something that a lot of people I think aren't really familiar with. What's interesting is that the first design internship that I got, I asked the two owners who are illustrators and designers sort of hybrid artists, I asked them why do you rent this big office space? Can't you do everything from home? Like everything you do is on a Mac and you could do it on the laptop if you wanted to. What's the point of having space? And their response was, "you know, I think to us it really means something that we've sort of made it in our career to some extent, and that we create an intentional space for work and for collaboration versus just doing it from home." And that's just, it's such an interesting thing to question now because now that everything is virtual because of the pandemic I think a lot of people are thinking about like, what really is the difference? Why am I spending so much time away from my family? Why am I spending so much time not seeing my kid grow up? Because I'm at the office all day when I can actually do this from home. I hope people question that more as we, as we move forward.

Tim:

Cool. Well, thank you very much for joining. This was a really great conversation and we ran through a lot of topics and it's always interesting to chat with you. So you're in Los Angeles right now. And how long will you be down there?

Erik:

I'll be here until Sunday. So August 2nd. But yeah, I'm trying to figure out what a work-cation looks like. So how can I travel and be in the same time zone, see some new places, but also take meetings and emails in between. It's kind of a prototype for maybe a future studio on wheels.

Tim:

It's nice to have a well-placed client in Los Angeles and San Francisco because there are good restaurants and interesting things to see.

Erik:

That is good advice for sure.

Tim:

Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, thanks. And I'll talk to you again soon.

Erik:

Thanks, Tim. Thanks for having me.

Hosted by Tim Yeadon

Produced by Meghan O'Neill

Edited by Lili Joo

Music & Cover Art by Brian Leahy

About Clyde Golden

We’re an experienced Seattle-based team of strategists, storytellers, filmmakers, designers, and musicians. Together, we’re a marketing strategy and content creation agency in Seattle.